Episode 27 – Podcasts with Scott Smith

Scott dropped additional nuggets of sales and marketing goodness in the EXTENDED Interview. Be sure to click here to access all of our great extended interviews, transcripts and more within our Insider's Club.

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If you’ve listened to my programs you might be saying to yourself, “Hmmm… this guy sounds like an announcer?”  Don’t worry… you’re not alone. And… you’re totally right!

I actually started right out of high school… about a million years ago… as a radio personality and spent more 25 years as a disc jockey, on-camera spokesperson, actor, voiceover talent and doing just about anything else you could get paid for in that industry.

And yes, if my voice sounds familiar it’s because you’ve heard me on the Golf Channel, ESPN, CNN, FOX and most other networks. Or, you might have heard me at Universal Studios here in Orlando or maybe on board Disney Cruise ships. Frankly, I’m always surprised by where I hear myself!

Podcast Transcription

Brian Basilico: Welcome everybody, to Mymarketingmagnet.com. I'm your host, Brian Basilico and man, I am super pumped to have actually a guy I have worked with. I've seen this man live in action and I've worked with him. He has helped me build this podcast. His name is Scott Smith and he is the purveyor of the most downloaded motivational podcast on iTunes. How are you doing today, Scott?

Scott Smith: Awesome, man. You build me up like that. Well actually, thinking about it, maybe a little bit more pumped me up.

Brian: Yes, right.

Scott: I flew a red eye last night, man. I need help. I'm kidding. I'm doing awesome. Glad to be here.

Brian: Oh man, it's great to have you. Tell us about how you went from being a radio personality shock jock so-to-speak and spend 25 years as a DJ and on camera, spokesperson, to a podcaster. How did that evolve?

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Scott: I did. I started as a shock jock back when I was a kid – kid meaning 18-, 19-years-old and kind of moved through things. In my early 40's, I was looking around for a place to get my message out and my messaging at the time was very personal developmentoriented. I was a fat guy who lost a lot of weight, and I was running around. I think a lot of our audience can probably relate to this. You want to do something, maybe create content, and get it online, and get people to listen to you and then buy from you, but where the heck do you start? You're messaging out there, where does it begin?

One day, I was kicking around, looking for a place to do it, and I stumbled across this crazy thing called podcasting, and it was in January of 2005. If you look at the trend on how it all started, podcasting really broke out in November of 2004 when USA Today, Wikipedia, The New York Times all said, “Hey, there's this cool thing called podcasting.” Well, I discovered it in January, and I remember walking to the living room, and I said to my wife, “I found it. I found my vehicle to get my message out.”

Now, I had no idea what that meant. The next few months we're trying to figure out how to do a blog because we used to have a blog just before the podcast. Itunes wasn't doing podcast back then, it was places like Podcast Pickle and Podcast Alley and it took me about three months and I finally got it all figured out and then I launched and amazingly not very long after that. I'm thinking maybe a month, iTunes scraped the universe of RSS feeds and started the podcast directory inside of iTunes and we went there right to the beginning, right to the top five immediately.

That's how I got into it, man. I'm looking for a place to share my message and this became the vehicle.

Brian: Yes, and it's amazing. I did a blog not too long ago, “The 75 things that we carry around in our pocket.” I think it was 2006 when the iPhone came out. It's amazing how this whole industry has evolved carrying around media in your pocket and now it's really evolving too in the fact that CD players are going away in cars, and now you're going to be able to get podcasts in any new 2015 model coming out. It's crazy. Have you seen a lot of change in the industry that way?

Scott: I have. Can I get real about this a little bit? Is that okay?

Brian: Please.

Scott: I think we're heading that direction. Now, if you do like I do, you're running around with a bluetooth on your phone, you step in your car, your car has bluetooth, that picks it up and that's what you do. You know Pandora or podcast down the road. Now with the Apple playing, the Google car – I don't know what it is – but it's going to be in the dashboard. Now, here is what happened. In 2014, Social Media Expo, there was a blog post in January 2014 and they said that 2014 is the year of the marketer getting involved in podcasting. Have we ever seen that happen. It has exploded in 2014. In 2015, what you're going to see is more of the large companies and you're starting to see it happen right now. A lot of the major companies are seeing this because advertisers have discovered the world of podcasting. You're going to see major growth, a lot of merging begin to happen.

I think there's a little bit of a trend to try to figure out if we still downloaded on demand or we do streaming. All those stuff is growing and moving forward, but to get real about it, having been literally in the number one position of self help, these days there's so much noise there, some days I could be number seven. I've always been number one for the past three weeks, so it just bounces around a little bit. But I can tell you, I know the numbers. I've seen the numbers on the very same RSS Feed since 2006 and I know Rob over at Libsyn, I know Todd Cochrane over Blubrry and we all see the same thing – it is a slow continuous growth. It's none of this massive hype you're seeing out there.

So I think what you're going to see is it's going to grow very, very slowly as it always has, but you're going to see better content, bigger players come on board and certainly we'll meet the vehicles in there. That's going to help. But then again, once that shows up, you're also going to see every radio station on the world, every iHeart station is going to show up on the same dial as the podcast. The future, really bright and yet I think you better have your A game on if you're going to participate.

Brian: Awesome. Great advice.

Let's break it down to the ultra basics. Okay, for those people who don't understand what a podcast is, describe what is a podcast? How do you do it? What's the mechanics of it?

Scott: I'm sorry, dude. I don't do ultra-basic. Are you kidding me? I'm supersophisticated. No, I'm kidding. The reality is basics are how we get everything in life. Let me start by saying this and I'll get you your answer here in a second, but for anybody who understands what a podcast is, I want you to remember something – it's consistently executing great quality in an engaging manner. If you do that, you're well on your way to winning. Why do I say that first? It's because that's really what any good content is. That's what a television show, or radio show, or a blog post, or a book, or anything. That's exactly what it is. People in the world of podcast intend not to do that. So what is a podcast?

A podcast at its heart and soul is simply an audio file, or could be a video file, or could be a PDF delivered via RSS Feed – RSS is Really Simple Syndication and it is anything but simple. It is crazy how complicated RSS could be. I know. Anybody who's in the internet they think, “Come on, man. RSS is simple.” No, it's not if you're an average person. That's one of the biggest problems of podcasting. In the future we will laugh about all the time we spent on RSS Feeds. It will go away very, very soon. It has to.

What you're talking about here is essentially – let's stick to audio. An audio program that is recorded in some manner, it becomes by de facto an MP3 and the reason it becomes an MP3 is because it needs to be tagged with certain information to work within the system as a podcast. This is just an audio file and what makes it magical is once it's uploaded and somebody says, “Hey, I like this. I'm going to subscribe to it.” Pay or no pay, usually it's free, then it's automatically sent down the line to the listener. That's really the breakthrough here, this ability to push your content to somebody who said they like it.

That's essentially what a podcast is. Did I get close on that, Brian?

Brian: Yes, you nailed it. I think one of the key factors in all of this is if we look at the evolution of radio and TV, how many years has it been since we've had a DVR? Not very many. Right? That started the whole on-demand industry. Now, you can go on if you have Comcast or AT&T, whatever, you can go on and pick on-demand content. That's essentially what a podcast is. It's pre-recorded content, but then people subscribe to it and they get it whenever they want it. Is that about how it works?

Scott: Pretty much, yes. It's that way and it's all confusing these days. There are 250,000-ish podcast on iTunes that everybody can download automatically for free and when you get into it the first time, everybody downloads a hundred of them, “Oh my god, I love this.” Then they realize most of them are garbage and now it's a problem because now it's more information being shoved at you. But that's going to sort itself out. It's going to be curated. It's going that way now. These people need help with that.

It's 10-years-old essentially and any real trend takes 20 years to really, really become part of the world. It doesn't matter what it is. I think what you're seeing right now with podcasting is that it is really getting mainstream attention. I don't want to say mainstream attention, I'm talking mainstream creative and professional attention. In other words, the smart Alex, the smarty pants that is sitting up in New York and out in LA, that actually know how to make movies and all that big stuff, they're saying, “Okay, this thing is going to be real so we're coming on board.”

We're getting to that second phase now. Let me just tap in here and say that if you're a person who still thinks you can just walk out there, and just walk around the block and talk in your podcast, and make a million dollars, that doesn't work anymore. You've got too much competition that's pushing you out of the way. It's heavily, heavily evolving right now.

Brian: Yes and one of the biggest trends that I saw recently was something that some people may be aware of or may not, which is the podcast serial, which was about a murder suspect in Washington DC and the way that they were able to monetize that is they got people to sponsor it, where the average person like you and I, these podcasts are not sponsored yet – maybe we sell advertising or something like that. But that brings me to the next question, “We're going to produce this audio file. We're going to throw it on the web.” From a local business standpoint, from a regional business of marketer, it doesn't really matter why should somebody be doing the podcast to me? What's the benefit of doing this?

Scott: Well, it's another channel. It's another way to share your message. You're the master being out. How many channels are you on now? You're everywhere.

Brian: A few.

Scott: You're in more channels than I am, that's for darn sure. I don't know when you sleep. Yes it's a channel and it's a different kind of channel, too. If you're an audio kind of person, if you can communicate – and that's my forte – then you should be doing a podcast. It's a great way for you to spread your message. If you're a writer, then maybe a blog is where you have to go. But at the end of the day, it's that consistent really high quality content that's going to resonate with your audience and that's what causes it to grow, and they do grow.

In fact, it's funny, I was on the airplane last night and I had a problem, Brian, because I haven't listened to the whole thing yet, bits and pieces of it, but I got it all downloaded. So, I'm sitting there, it is midnight, I'm in the airplane and I hate to say this, “I'm going to podcast that I know will make me go to sleep.” And I know several that will do that. So I thought, “I'll learn a little bit and then they'll just fade off and that's not a good thing by the way, that I fall asleep to your podcast. I thought, well, let's listen to Serial. The first episode was like 54 minute long, it kept me awake the whole time. I was sucked in, hooked line in sync. Very well done, professionally produced with the highest standards, a lot of money, a lot of skill, a lot of talent behind that program which is why it got the sponsorship. It was set up to go from the beginning to do that. But if you listen, very few people can produce that show. So, they came in the door making money doing that.

We, our podcast now, we're going to do about 600,000 downloads this month, I have several people approaching me for sponsorships on that, haven't decided if I'm going to do it yet. Here is why you want to do it, guys, if it's where your voice comes out, great. But I'll tell you what, in marketing these days and if you talk to me, I'm a nurtured marketer. I'm a guy who builds relationships, one-off emails, I use Infusionsoft, all things like that, but I'm a nurture marketer. I don't have to sell you today, it's okay if I sell you in six months. There is no more effective way to get to know somebody than to use the power of your words and the infliction of your voice and your energy. That is what a podcast is all about. It is the most intimate medium in the world. There is only one medium in the world that you put inside your body. You plug the ear buds into your ears, it literally vibrates.

You could be a woo-woo person or not, but vibration is the key to whole universe. Here we are talking audio waves vibrating in your ears, down into your heart and soul, you can connect with people on a podcast like you can't with anything else. Television, the computer, you got to break the fourth wall. You got to scream in front of you. The only downfall to podcast and actually it's one of the great parts of it is that people tend to be passive. They tend to be doing something else while they're listening which is really cool because if you know anything about the mind, they're just wide open to hear what you have to say. They're out there walking and enjoying life, and here you are resonating with them on a very, very personal manner, which is really what a podcast needs to be and you just speak directly with them – that's why you need to do it. They will feel like you're whispering in their ear, you're their best friend and they have to do business with you. I think I nailed it that time, Brian. I think I did.

Brian: I think you did. You hit two things with your spot on with me. Number one is that I listen to podcast when I walk my dog everyday at 3 o'clock. I listen to yours and I listen to a handful of others, it is exactly that, it keeps you entertained. The 30-minute walk goes by in two minutes and it's just amazing on how that works. The second thing that you touched on and you don't have this problem, Scott, but I do, I have been told that I have a face for radios. Doing a podcast is so much easier than doing a video. I really, really love that.

Scott: I think that was a compliment. Thank you.

Brian: It was. The next question is this and you mentioned great content and I love that, but I think there's more than just great content that goes into this – what are some of the key components of a great podcast? It could be everything from microphones, to length, to what have you. What do you see as the components of a great podcast?

Scott: I think the one thing that we're always focused on is where do we want to take our audience? I think most podcasters go out there and they produce their program with, “I'm going to do a podcast and maybe people will come to me and who knows what will happen?” Because it's fun. Let's face it, some ego gets involved in doing a podcast. Right? “Listen to me, look, I got a podcast.” But I think our audience is looking for a problem that has to be solved and we are providing that solution. If we do it properly, they will come to us and they will become our client in some way, shape or form.

I think one of the great things that has to go into a podcast is knowing where you want to take your audience. What's the point of it? I was listening to Lewis Howes' podcast last night as well and right at the end of it he asks his guest to describe what greatness is to them. Any he calls his podcast School of Greatness. Right? He basically themes his entire podcast around that and you'll find the best podcast do some kind of a theme that they bounce back and forth. A theme is very easy, but in the end, what you want to do is you want to grab your listeners wherever they find you and then take them on this journey. So how do we get them there?

First off, you got to have content and subject matter that we know that they're going to want and we have to lead them to a solution that at the end they go, “Wow, that was really cool stuff.” Saddest thing about it, if somebody learns something from me, I don't want them to say, “I learned it from a podcast.” I want them to say – my friends says, “Where did you learn that? I learned it from Scott Smith on his daily news podcast.” I want credit, man. So, knowing what we want them to do is key here.

Now the next thing I believe is really, really powerful is having the proper format thought out in advance and for the most part following that format because audiences are creatures of habit. They will get to know what you do. They're creatures of habit not because of you, but because they've been talked that way by the media. There are certain things that happen in a certain way. If you want to get all free form on them, that's fine, that's what podcast are for, but don't expect them to fall in line like lemmings and go where you want them to go, because you're teaching them to run to different directions. Where do you want them to go? What's the format? How do you take them there? Then you lay in your cool content, however you want to do that stuff, come back around the other side of it, now we have to talk about the quality. You have no choice anymore.

You must deliver good quality. Now, up until about a year and-a-half ago, if you got even close to good quality, you soared right to the top because nobody did it, nobody had great quality. But now, it's a year and-a-half later. You get people like me out of here with real serious broadcast gear and we're playing for real or we got our businesses built around this thing. I don't want you to geek out and Brian, you know me about this when it comes to – I hate even to say this stuff. Don't geek out on the gear. At the same time we have to hit a certain professional level or guess what? You're an amateur. With the professionals playing full out right now in the podcast world, if you're going to play, you need to be a professional. It's easier than you think.

Brian: I think you hit the nail on the head and one of the things, the first podcast that I ever did was through Blog Talk Radio. Blog Talk Radio, you pick up the phone, you talk on the phone, your guest pick up on the phone and that kind of stuff. The quality was acceptable a while ago and I still do a Blog Talk Radio show, but this show is actually recorded using higher level gear and a little bit more thought put into it, there's planning – all these stuff is laid out in detail, then I think that's one of the differences between where we were and where we're headed because like you said, the biggest part of this now is the players are starting to get serious and unfortunately when somebody raises the bar just like a football game, if somebody is scoring points, you've got to score points, too. You have to raise the bar to where the bar has been raised.

Scott, man, those were some awesome tips. Loved it very, very much, but like anything else, people make mistakes. What are some of the most common podcast mistakes you see either your students or people on the internet making?

Scott: The most common, frankly, is not being consistent. It's just it. When I say consistent, you need to nail it same time every single week and you need to do at least a weekly podcast. A lot of people are doing dailies these days. That is a trend that's coming. The original daily trend by the way, it came up because it was a way to get downloads and downloads meant more advertising revenue and more connection with your audience. But still, you're [inaudible] any difference, it's just downloads. But it's the consistency that gets you there, at the same every week or everyday. A trend, just to pop it in here is that you're probably going to see multiple daily downloads where you have people, maybe financial planners, folks like that who can literally do five podcast a day and just hit the feed. That's going to be very powerful, but you got to be more consistent than ever there. That's the number one thing. I think being consistent.

The other thing that I also hear a lot of people do and Brian, you've heard me talk about this on my podcast persuasion program where I talk about the chuckle heads who are all inside themselves. It happens a lot. When you get more than one person on the podcast, first off, a single voice podcast, very, very difficult to do. You got to know exactly where you want to take people and how to guide them there. Most people do a dual, maybe a partner type of podcast and if it's more than one person, maybe it's two or three, lots of times they forget the most important person is actually the listener and they don't have a say in the content right now. It goes very inside.

What I mean by inside is all the conversation as well, “Man, you've been busy lately. I haven't talked to you for three weeks. Where have you been? What's happening?” As a listener, I could care less. Get to the point, get there now. I hear that all the time and to me that is one of the biggest mistakes people make. They get inside themselves instead of inside the head of the audience. Like I said in the first part of our interview, I said that we literally are inside their ears, we're in their body. We're there. We have a chance to really get them.

Finally, I think one of the biggest items – this curtails everybody. We all love shiny objects, man. Particularly if you spend any time on the internet, there is nothing but shiny objects. When it comes to podcasting, people get so caught up in “Which editing software? How should I open it and what equipment should I have?” Brian, you know me, you know I can dive deep on the equipment and you and I like to geek out on that all the time.

Brian: Yes, we do.

Scott: But, I can tell you right now in the groups that I'm working with, it is so amazing to watch people geek out over that equipment so long that they never get their own podcast done. I know I've said, “Be consistent and have good quality.” I know I've said that, but at the end of the day it's just got to be good enough. Just get it out there. Do not geek out on having to figure out what gear to buy and go invest $20,000 in something. I think Brian, you use a pretty basic system right now and you got a background in audio. My system, a little bit more robust, but I'm a pro doing this and I've been at it 10 years. I got a pretty nice studio.

Those are three ideas of what might become the mistakes.

Brian: Very good. I do, I have a very basic system, but then I have pretty advanced software to make up for that basic system.

Scott: I could remember that I did 16 podcasts a week for a long time. I'm now only doing five, I'll go to six here in about two weeks. Man, has it been a nice break, I got to tell you.

Brian: That was hard.

Scott: Also that I established a rule a long time ago that I don't edit. I never edit. I did that and I will edit if I cough or make a bad mistake, but not always. Usually the only reason I ever edit anything is I just said something that made me sound stupid. Once you say something stupid, if you're not a real professional, you can't get out of it. You may as well go backwards and cut it and do a really nice edit so that people don't even know you did it. I've been known by the way to start a podcast four or five times, get three or four minutes into it and stop it, and just erase it, and start again because the energy is not right, I'm not in the right vibe, I'm not right where I need to be. As a senior would say, “I'm not in pocket with the band.” The band happens to be me and my audience.

I'll jump in and I'll do that, but my process because of that is because of the volume that I do, I tend to operate like a live radio guy. So everything runs real-time. From a geeking out on equipment process, I have a nice mic. A Heil PR-41 and I run that through a Symetrix 528 voice processor. Then once it gets inside my computer, I'm working on Pro Tools and I always tell people, “Don't go to Pro Tools because Pro Tools is for professionals and beyond. If you don't have the need or the training, you're going to spend three weeks trying to get your podcast out.” Would you agree with that, Brian?

Brian: Absolutely, yes. I used to be a Pro Tools geek.

Scott: Which one do you use right now?

Brian: Right now I'm using Logic. Apple Logic.

Scott: And even most people don't need Logic – don't need that. Audacity, GarageBand, maybe Audition over on Adobe and that's about as far as you want to go for most people because beyond that, you're going to trip all over yourselves. I set it up for what I do. If you're going to do just the random talking atmosphere podcast, I recommend it just the other day. In fact to one of our folks in our group, [Gala]. I had her pick up a Zoom microphone with an XLR cable and an SM28 Shure microphone so she could just walk around anywhere and talk to people and it would sound really good. That is a basic professional level set up that allow you to get the job done fast. I'm not going to geek out anymore than that. I'm not going to do it.

Brian: No, that was great because you even started the next question which is what are some of your best marketing practices. Obviously, good quality sound, not geeking out is one. But what if some of your best marketing practices – now that we've got this podcast out there – what do we do with it?

Scott: Well, I think the number one thing is when you have that podcast out, you got the good content, everything we already talked about, you want to launch that podcast with what you did with several episodes first, and get it out there and get a New & Notable on iTunes. New & Notable is not difficult to get, just takes a little bit activity – very little, actually, and I think if you have any kind of list-it-all, you immediately just send it to your list. You say, “Hey, I got a podcast” and pretty much that's going to put you on New & Notable. After that, remember, iTunes has done you a great service. They have given you promotion. If you suck, then you wasted that. Make sure you're good before you get there, make sure you really have worked this out and don't be anal about it, just make sure you're good and have enough programs that are four, or five or six. Because everything is registered by activity and only clicking “Subscribe” on iTunes counts for anything. If they come at it any other way, you're not going to get anything.

So you want people to subscribe and stay with you. That's number one, just get a bunch of really good podcast, get them up there, get New & Notable, send out to your email list and get it rocking. Now, if you really want to work this thing and Brian, I owe you a hit on this one as well – we took somebody from nowhere to being number 24 in self help on the mention of her podcast on my podcast. You can get a guy like me and everybody who's in my group gets that. I will promote them and push them to the top and then send an email and that gets them to the top as well, but still at the end of the day, it's up to the podcaster. That's why people interview people with – you do this as well, like me – with list and I'm going to let people know that I'm on this program and they're all going to be able to listen to you and your podcast is going to grow. That's a fantastic way of doing it.

Now, that's promotion. You can do other things, you can get out and do press releases if you'd like to – there's all kinds of things you could do, but at the end of the day, it's going to grow slowly. Brian, I think maybe you've learned that probably more than anybody, that it's not like you're going to get a million downloads the first month. You're going to get 300 maybe. I think the average podcast has 40 –that's about it. Once you get beyond 40, you're a rock star, man. You are. You don't need 1,000 people really. That's a lot. You don't need 27,000 like me, but what you have to have is a podcast that is niched and speaking directly to your client. When you do that, you don't need huge numbers. You're going to see these people are going to come to you.

Let me tell you, there's a lot of lore out there about how much money people make on a podcast because of their sponsorships. Yes, you can make it, but there are few and far between that can pull those numbers off. The fastest quickest way to making money on a podcast is to play high-income client your way, which we will focus on because here is the thing, a podcast is not a selling environment. A podcast is a listening and really a passive listening environment. They're not expecting to buy from you. It's like going to Facebook. Anybody who tries to go sell on Facebook fails miserably. But when you go to Facebook and you do a post that's very lifestyle-oriented, then you move them off of Facebook and then you opt them into something, then you have a chance at creating a relationship – same thing with a podcast.

We want to promote initially and get it out there in all the ways that we know how to do it and then we want to move them into our funnel in a very effective manner. I have by the way done about 1,700 opt ins in the past two weeks and I haven't made the product yet, and I haven't lied to them. I said, “I've got a new product coming out. It's free. You can have it. Just go here and you can get it.” Hey, you want an inside tip as well?

Brian: Sure.

Scott: Okay. We do opt ins on email and we have always on email and about four months ago I started testing SMS marketing, text marketing. Now in every single podcast, you will hear me say, “I got a freebie. Go here to get it.” Tell them where the web address is to do it. We're doing something called “do what makes your heart sing.” It is at Dowhatmakesyourheartsing.com and we'll send people over there, or we'll say, “Text the keyword HEART to 96-000.” I've been saying that at the end of my podcast for a while now and what we found is it's amazing, 60% of the opt ins are coming from the desktop and 40% coming from text marketing.

I don't know if I'm more surprised that the desktop is still holding up 60%, or that, “I would miss 40% if I didn't have a text.” I don't know which one surprises me more, but I know I won't give up either now.

Brian: The final question I want to ask you before we finish up today is how does one measure success with podcast? You said that, you kind of eluded to it with the numbers game, but how do you measure success with this? When do you know that it's worth the time and energy to do this?

Scott: Good question, man. If it's not worth the time and energy, you're not going to do it very long. You will do what's quoted so long ago, it's called [hod fade]. It will just go away and if you go on iTunes, you'll find any number of podcast that haven't been updated in eight years. It's kind of crazy.

I've learned a few things. I've learned that the podcast has to have an ROI on it. You've got to get a Return On Investment. So it depends on what return you're looking for. If you're looking at it to drive your business to bring in high-end coaching clients – which is what I use it for. We used it in our membership site and we measured our success by how many members could we get. We give away podcast free on Mondays and it will be sold the rest of the week. So, the measurement was, “How many members can I keep going?” It has slowly shifted over time to, “How many high-end clients can I get? Can I keep that funnel filled all the time?”

You've been on a couple of my coaching calls, Brian, and you know that we've broken a few people out and they were all worried about the money, all worried about spending time on it and when we finally got it down to a passion play where they just really wanted to tell stories, and connect, and communicate, and do their part to save the world, then yes, some people like to do that. When they finally got their, “Hey, this is just a place for me to be myself and for me to share what I can share with the world.” Then they relax and really just enjoy it.

Those I find are some of the best podcasts out there. I think you measure your success by deciding what the outcome is going to be for that podcast. If the outcome is for you to go and make money, well then you need to get on it, become an expert at it and go and there's lots of tools that you can use to get there. If the outcome is you just want to have another channel for your membership site, or maybe just support your hobby of dog training, whatever happens to be, I believe that's how you measure it because at the end of the day, at some point it's not about the money. Yes, certainly in the beginning it's always about the money. Right? If you don't have any money, it's always about the money.

But these are long term plays and I just want to tap onto this real fast and say, remember, podcast is week after week, you cannot hide behind it. If you're doing 60 minutes a week or 30 minutes a week, it's going to make the truth come out. If you don't like doing it, the truth is going to come out that you're tired of doing it. If you expect it to make a million dollars, and you're not, and you're still doing it, people are going to start to not like you because your attitude is going to be there. Every single thing about you – I don't care how good you are with your marketing message, you are so exposed on a podcast that it better be really, really straight so they can see it because it is going to come out.

I do 90 minutes a day and it's hard to control it. If you're doing 60 minutes, make sure you're right on track with it and you're really enjoying what you're doing, and enjoying for that purpose, and amazingly what happens is people feel that, suddenly they start giving you feedback. If you're not getting the feedback by emails, and text or whatever you're looking for, you're probably not really connecting or you're probably caught up in your head, maybe move you down into your heart a little bit. Ultimately that's what it's going to be for most people, I think.

Brian: I love that. That's some awesome advice. The other thing that I think that we need to touch on with this, and this is true on any kind of marketing – I don't care what it is – is you have to be open to evolution because you could start it in one direction and then find out as you're going that you have to be open to change because it may be that your audience is looking for something different. As you start to get that feedback, you start to say, “This is what they really want, so let me start going down that road.” Would you agree with that?

Scott: I would agree. I have changed four or five times. Never quite know what's going to work. My Daily Boost Podcast has been probably the most consistent in terms of messaging and even that has changed over the years. About every 18 months, something is going to shift, man. Technology, people's mindset, something is going to change and we are in the technology world. If you're doing a podcast, you are tied to the tech world. No way around it and that's going to change. As society changes, you need to be willing to do that.

If you're doing it for business to make money, the podcast is either generating the leads and getting you customers or it's not. If you're in the internet world doing some internet marketing, you know that it's all about the problem, the solution and the offer. So if you're doing a podcast and it's not bringing in the results you want, then you're not talking to the right people with the right offer. You're just not. You got to be willing to change until you get it. Like Tony Robbins said years ago, the most successful people in the world are the most flexible and I spent a lot of time in personal development.

Just because you think that you know how to get it there and you read every book and listened to every podcast in the world, if you haven't ever done it, I'm sorry, you don't know how to do it. You better be flexible and if you are flexible and get your ego out of the way, have some fun with it and really think about where do you want to take your client because that's what we always talk about. When a podcast listener arrives, where do we want them to go? When they show up at my podcast, where do I want them to end up? They don't even know I'm taking them anywhere, but I want to know where I'm taking them because that's how I built my business. I will bend and flex until I get them where I want them to be.

Brian: Scott, awesome stuff. I love your advice on this.

I understand that you have a system that helps people better understand how to start and utilize podcast. Can you talk a little bit about that for us?

Scott: I do. Yes. I've been asked to do this for years and finally did it and my friend David Perdew asked me up at NAMS in Atlanta. You know David.

Brian: I do.

Scott: What I did was I looked at how I did my programs. Again, I've evolved over the years so I began to evolve and I began to use the podcast format and distribution medium as a way to reach out to those people and then take them through a very sophisticated funnel process that I began to call Podcast Persuasion. Podcast Persuasion is something that I evolved very slowly and Brian, you've had the ability to poke around that a little bit and be on some of most calls as well. It's extremely different than anything else that's in the marketplace because we really come at it from a different angle. Our goal is really simple – how to turn a podcast prospect into a high-value client.

It's been so successful and we're getting ready to launch it big time so you can actually slip behind closed doors and get it, and we love to have you. It's a cool program. It's a great weekly coaching calls and I think we have five or six modules in it right now and a whole bunch of folks that are beginning to make it work online and starting to turn those leads, those passive listeners and actual customers, which is a really satisfying experience.

Brian: Love it. Scott, if people wanted to get a hold of you, what's the best way for them to contact you?

Scott: Best way. The best way possible for me – my company is called Motivationtomove.com, all spelled out. Just send it to Support@Motivationtomove.com The girls will track me down until they find me and then you're going to get me doing that, so that's the best way to get me. I would do that. You can do the same thing, Support@Podcastpersuasion.com as well and it will filter right through to me and it might take me a day or two to get back from me, but I will.

Brian: Hey, Scott, I really, really appreciate you coming on. You gave us a really great usable and actionable tips, and I love your insight, and yes I love your program and all those things. So, thanks so much for joining us today. I really appreciate it, I know my audience is going to appreciate it and thanks again.

Scott: You're very welcome. Thank you for having me, Brian.

Brian: Man, Scott just dumped a whole bunch of knowledge on us. If you liked this, go to iTunes and give us a review and share it with your friends and come back next week for another killer expert interview. Until then, rock on.

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